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	<title>Comments on: Espiner versus Turei &#8211; A Reassessment</title>
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	<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/</link>
	<description>A sense of humour is just common sense dancing.</description>
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		<title>By: mark espiner</title>
		<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/comment-page-1/#comment-5929</link>
		<dc:creator>mark espiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 10:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/?p=2007#comment-5929</guid>
		<description>[...] ... Colin Espiner with no reason out of hand mocked it and said he wouldn&#039;t engage the thought. ...Espiner versus Turei - A Reassessment @ Brian Edwards MediaIn a recent post Judy praised Metiria Turei&#039;s performance on last Sunday&#039;s Q &amp; A and had this to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8230; Colin Espiner with no reason out of hand mocked it and said he wouldn&#8217;t engage the thought. &#8230;Espiner versus Turei &#8211; A Reassessment @ Brian Edwards MediaIn a recent post Judy praised Metiria Turei&#8217;s performance on last Sunday&#8217;s Q &amp; A and had this to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peemak</title>
		<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/comment-page-1/#comment-5341</link>
		<dc:creator>Peemak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/?p=2007#comment-5341</guid>
		<description>The problem with modern political and corporately owned journalists is that they are far too close to  streetwalkers.How on earth can any Journalist who is paid by a Prime Minister or a Corporate entity do their jobs without either solid political or corporate bias? They simply can&#039;t, and they bring their whole profession into deep disrepute by constantly professing that they are impartial. A Corporate or a political Horse is simply a Corporate or Political horse who is constantly being saddled up and ridden by their employers for profit and gain.This is why &quot;blogging&quot; is now hugely successful. I and the public would rather a soapbox orator anyday than a corporate whore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with modern political and corporately owned journalists is that they are far too close to  streetwalkers.How on earth can any Journalist who is paid by a Prime Minister or a Corporate entity do their jobs without either solid political or corporate bias? They simply can&#8217;t, and they bring their whole profession into deep disrepute by constantly professing that they are impartial. A Corporate or a political Horse is simply a Corporate or Political horse who is constantly being saddled up and ridden by their employers for profit and gain.This is why &#8220;blogging&#8221; is now hugely successful. I and the public would rather a soapbox orator anyday than a corporate whore.</p>
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		<title>By: BE</title>
		<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/comment-page-1/#comment-4175</link>
		<dc:creator>BE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/?p=2007#comment-4175</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Well, hold on, that’s not what you first mentioned. It was taken to be purely aesthetic — that is, physical looks.&lt;/em&gt;

I didn&#039;t actually mention &lt;strong&gt;physical &lt;/strong&gt;looks at all, though I can see one might have taken it that way. I gave Arthur Allan Thomas as an example. There was nothing particular about his physical appearance, but things were revealed about him in the trials that made him seem a very unattractive person. It was said, for example, that he kept the public hairs of earlier girlfriends in a matchbox. In the dock his demeanour was unappealing. I think that, in a less extreme form, this was also the case with Field. As I said, &quot;not someone you&#039;d warm to&quot;. 

In cases where there is complex forensic evidence, juries are often unable to weigh the scientific evidence and will rely on their intuition, their overall impression of the person in the dock. It&#039;s not a bad way of operating. And it will often include appearance and demeanour. 

In general, I don&#039;t disagree with what you&#039;ve said in your comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Well, hold on, that’s not what you first mentioned. It was taken to be purely aesthetic — that is, physical looks.</em></p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t actually mention <strong>physical </strong>looks at all, though I can see one might have taken it that way. I gave Arthur Allan Thomas as an example. There was nothing particular about his physical appearance, but things were revealed about him in the trials that made him seem a very unattractive person. It was said, for example, that he kept the public hairs of earlier girlfriends in a matchbox. In the dock his demeanour was unappealing. I think that, in a less extreme form, this was also the case with Field. As I said, &#8220;not someone you&#8217;d warm to&#8221;. </p>
<p>In cases where there is complex forensic evidence, juries are often unable to weigh the scientific evidence and will rely on their intuition, their overall impression of the person in the dock. It&#8217;s not a bad way of operating. And it will often include appearance and demeanour. </p>
<p>In general, I don&#8217;t disagree with what you&#8217;ve said in your comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark S</title>
		<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/comment-page-1/#comment-4171</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 03:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/?p=2007#comment-4171</guid>
		<description>&quot;No doubt you could have put him right&quot;.

Well, hold on, that&#039;s not what you first mentioned. It was taken to be purely aesthetic -- that is, physical looks. Now you&#039;ve just added in &quot;personality&quot; which adds another dimension and transcends  &quot;appearances&quot;. A defendant&#039;s personality can be conflated with &quot;demeanour&quot;, and how one conduct him/herself under cross-examination. Which means: body language, eye contact (or lack thereof), quivering mouth, gesticulations; as well as a whole raft of other telltale signs giving clues as to the likely veracity as to what&#039;s been offered up by the accused, to get off the hook.

We all know of people, who, at first glance, seem attractive but are just ugly. You need to look no further than Clayton Weatherston: an OK-looking Mr. Average guy. But, in court, someone who came across as repellent and thoroughly loathsome. Sniggering, sneering, condescending, haughty and narcissistic. And that was his in-court
&quot;personality&quot;. And it, obviously, didn&#039;t predispose the jury to regard him with much sympathy, in their deliberations. If anything, it helped to erase the last remaining vestiges of doubt, as to his shaky defence, of being provoked.

I believe, Field had the unmistakable &quot;look of guilt&quot;; shifty-eyed and far too self-possessed, bordering on smug. Clutching that red bible, at sentencing, was proof positive of my thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No doubt you could have put him right&#8221;.</p>
<p>Well, hold on, that&#8217;s not what you first mentioned. It was taken to be purely aesthetic &#8212; that is, physical looks. Now you&#8217;ve just added in &#8220;personality&#8221; which adds another dimension and transcends  &#8220;appearances&#8221;. A defendant&#8217;s personality can be conflated with &#8220;demeanour&#8221;, and how one conduct him/herself under cross-examination. Which means: body language, eye contact (or lack thereof), quivering mouth, gesticulations; as well as a whole raft of other telltale signs giving clues as to the likely veracity as to what&#8217;s been offered up by the accused, to get off the hook.</p>
<p>We all know of people, who, at first glance, seem attractive but are just ugly. You need to look no further than Clayton Weatherston: an OK-looking Mr. Average guy. But, in court, someone who came across as repellent and thoroughly loathsome. Sniggering, sneering, condescending, haughty and narcissistic. And that was his in-court<br />
&#8220;personality&#8221;. And it, obviously, didn&#8217;t predispose the jury to regard him with much sympathy, in their deliberations. If anything, it helped to erase the last remaining vestiges of doubt, as to his shaky defence, of being provoked.</p>
<p>I believe, Field had the unmistakable &#8220;look of guilt&#8221;; shifty-eyed and far too self-possessed, bordering on smug. Clutching that red bible, at sentencing, was proof positive of my thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: BE</title>
		<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/comment-page-1/#comment-4164</link>
		<dc:creator>BE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/?p=2007#comment-4164</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;All those, Labour supporters or not, who think that Field was wrongly convicted, then you’re either deranged or deluded.&lt;/em&gt;

Your usual well-reasoned argument, Mark S. As it happens, I co-authored a book on murder in New Zealand with the late Mike Bungay, QC, an expert on criminal defence. His firm view was that the attractiveness (in terms of personality) or otherwise of the defendant was significant in affecting a jury&#039;s judgement. No doubt you could have put him right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>All those, Labour supporters or not, who think that Field was wrongly convicted, then you’re either deranged or deluded.</em></p>
<p>Your usual well-reasoned argument, Mark S. As it happens, I co-authored a book on murder in New Zealand with the late Mike Bungay, QC, an expert on criminal defence. His firm view was that the attractiveness (in terms of personality) or otherwise of the defendant was significant in affecting a jury&#8217;s judgement. No doubt you could have put him right.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark S</title>
		<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/comment-page-1/#comment-4163</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/?p=2007#comment-4163</guid>
		<description>All those, Labour supporters or not, who think that Field was wrongly convicted, then you&#039;re either deranged or deluded. Or both. And, please, credit the jury with having more sense than being swayed by the &quot;attractive&quot; or &quot;unattractive&quot; appearances of the defendant, when arriving at their verdict. It&#039;s a little insulting. Oh, yeah, Helen Clark should be in the next cell. Remember this: &quot;The only thing he&#039;s guilty of his helping other people&quot;. She really wanted her lapdog (Noel Ingram) to exonerate him, so as not to weaken her hold on power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All those, Labour supporters or not, who think that Field was wrongly convicted, then you&#8217;re either deranged or deluded. Or both. And, please, credit the jury with having more sense than being swayed by the &#8220;attractive&#8221; or &#8220;unattractive&#8221; appearances of the defendant, when arriving at their verdict. It&#8217;s a little insulting. Oh, yeah, Helen Clark should be in the next cell. Remember this: &#8220;The only thing he&#8217;s guilty of his helping other people&#8221;. She really wanted her lapdog (Noel Ingram) to exonerate him, so as not to weaken her hold on power.</p>
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		<title>By: Fletch</title>
		<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/comment-page-1/#comment-4127</link>
		<dc:creator>Fletch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 05:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/?p=2007#comment-4127</guid>
		<description>As far as Field goes, I think Justice was served. The only thing is that Helen Clark should be doing time in the cell next to him: she is also guilty of perverting the course of Justice - many times over..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as Field goes, I think Justice was served. The only thing is that Helen Clark should be doing time in the cell next to him: she is also guilty of perverting the course of Justice &#8211; many times over..</p>
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		<title>By: More to suggest Labour thinks Field not guilty &#124; Kiwiblog</title>
		<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/comment-page-1/#comment-4124</link>
		<dc:creator>More to suggest Labour thinks Field not guilty &#124; Kiwiblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 02:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/?p=2007#comment-4124</guid>
		<description>[...] to further fit the theory that Labour thinks Field is innocent, are these blog comments from Brian Edwards. Now Dr Edwards does not speak for Labour, is not an MP, and I am sure they are his honest opinion. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to further fit the theory that Labour thinks Field is innocent, are these blog comments from Brian Edwards. Now Dr Edwards does not speak for Labour, is not an MP, and I am sure they are his honest opinion. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BE</title>
		<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/comment-page-1/#comment-3991</link>
		<dc:creator>BE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 10:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/?p=2007#comment-3991</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;That is really over-simplifing his crimes, almost trivialising them.&lt;/em&gt;

Yes, if you accept the evidence. I have serious doubts. My view is that self-interested lying by his accusors and some enemies played a significant part in the verdict. We&#039;ll see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>That is really over-simplifing his crimes, almost trivialising them.</em></p>
<p>Yes, if you accept the evidence. I have serious doubts. My view is that self-interested lying by his accusors and some enemies played a significant part in the verdict. We&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark S</title>
		<link>http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/10/espiner-versus-terei-a-reassessment/comment-page-1/#comment-3987</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/?p=2007#comment-3987</guid>
		<description>&quot;But the gain, it seems to me, was relatively small - he got some tiling and other work done&quot;. 

That is really over-simplifing his crimes, almost trivialising them. It was a lot more serious than that. &#039;Tiler&#039; Field actively set out to subvert the course of the police&#039;s investigation by doctoring evidence and counselling witnesses to change their stories; in doing so, he was perverting the course of justice. This was not a case of someone getting tiling done on the cheap; it was a case of someone, who, egergiously, abused his ministerial position to offer enticements by way of an illicit quid pro quo, which strikes at the very heart of this country&#039;s governance.

He&#039;s cost the country literally millions $s, with the Ingram Enquiry and the High Court trial. I think he got off lightly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But the gain, it seems to me, was relatively small &#8211; he got some tiling and other work done&#8221;. </p>
<p>That is really over-simplifing his crimes, almost trivialising them. It was a lot more serious than that. &#8216;Tiler&#8217; Field actively set out to subvert the course of the police&#8217;s investigation by doctoring evidence and counselling witnesses to change their stories; in doing so, he was perverting the course of justice. This was not a case of someone getting tiling done on the cheap; it was a case of someone, who, egergiously, abused his ministerial position to offer enticements by way of an illicit quid pro quo, which strikes at the very heart of this country&#8217;s governance.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s cost the country literally millions $s, with the Ingram Enquiry and the High Court trial. I think he got off lightly.</p>
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